Published on April 30, 2007 By drmiler In Politics
Sconn1 has me b/l once more because he lost an arguement. Here it is.

Link

I could actually care less if he keeps me on his b/l.

Comments (Page 1)
on Apr 30, 2007
bump
on Apr 30, 2007
couldn't answer on that feed so i will answer here

the federal government did declare war on the mormans before the civil war

and they lost becouse of an early winter storm

the federal troops where not prepared for it

and the mormans actually had to come to their aid

sent them blankets and food

under the peace terms the federal government got to put a base near salt lake, that area is now part of the univeristy of utah

but to get there the troops had to march through salt lake city under orders not to stop for anything or for any reason

the mormans had evacuated to provo leaving one man with a torch in each building with orders to burn the city down if the troops did not follow the above orders

that base recently became the olympic village

now sean or col will tell me i don't know what i am talking about

this is from http://www.wyomingtalesandtrails.com/bridgera.html


The Mormon War, sometime known as the "Utah War" or "Buchanan's Blunder," arose out of the loss of the postal contract by Brigham Young's express company and President Buchanan's concern that Brigham Young was intent on making Deseret, as Utah was then known, an independent state. Notwithstanding warnings from former Texas President Sam Houston that if a military force were sent to Salt Lake City that all the Army would find would be a "heap of ashes," President Buchanan determined to remove Young as territorial governor and replace him with a non-Mormon. Young, on the other hand, determined that no hostile forces were to enter the territory, and, indeed, demanded that federal forces surrender their arms and ammunitions. President Buchanan in an address to Congress noted:

now it has been argued as well that the mormans lost this war becouse the troops where allowed to build that base

on Apr 30, 2007
Haha. You can still reply there. Just not from the old forums. Apparently BL works there.
on Apr 30, 2007
um, danny boy, did you read any further than that first paragraph? It also says this:

A Territorial government was established for Utah by act of Congress approved the 9th September, 1850, and the Constitution and laws of the United States were thereby extended over it "so far as the same or any provisions thereof may be applicable." This act provided for the appointment by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, of a governor (who was to be ex officio superintendent of Indian affairs), a secretary, three judges of the supreme court, a marshal, and a district attorney. Subsequent acts provided for the appointment of the officers necessary to extend our land and our Indian system over the Territory. Brigham Young was appointed the first governor on the 20th September, 1850, and has held the office ever since. Whilst Governor Young has been both governor and superintendent of Indian affairs throughout this period, he has been at the same time the head of the church called the Latter-day Saints, and professes to govern its members and dispose of their property by direct inspiration and authority from the Almighty. His power has been, therefore, absolute over both church and state.

Basically what the federal government was trying to do was reclaim its terratory from a 'governor' who thought he was more powerful than the president who appointed him. I don't see anywhere on this web page that the intent was to exterminate the mormons, but rather to regain control. Did I miss something some where else?
on Apr 30, 2007
the intent was to disperse the mormans across the rest of the country so that they would not have the ability to control any state or territory of the country

and it was still a declared war and the federal troops lost the fight although no one was actually shot on either side

and the only real action in it was when the mormans burnt the supply train heading for the troops

that was before the storm hit after the storm hit and the troops had no food or warm clothing

the mormans gathered as much food and as many blankets as they could and took them to the troops

pretty nice considering that the troops where ordered to kill any resistance

and utah was a territory becouse brigham young wanted it that way to start with

also during this time in southern utah outside of ceder city there was a wagon train that was destroyed by members of the church mostly out of stupidity but also out of fear

a messenger arrived a day after the massicure from brigham young to leave the wagon train alone

but rather to regain control


to regain control of a territory that wasn't out of control


you have to remember that only like 10 years or less seperated this action against the mormans and the riot in navou where joseph smith was killed by a mob

on Apr 30, 2007
Whilst Governor Young has been both governor and superintendent of Indian affairs throughout this period, he has been at the same time the head of the church called the Latter-day Saints,


and he was the leader of the church before he was appointed gov.
on Apr 30, 2007
one more thing this was a declared war by congress

on May 01, 2007
and he was the leader of the church before he was appointed gov.


Yep, but he was still responsible to follow the laws of the federal government, and thus the president who appointed him. The only reason that him being a church leader was important was because he used it to influence the people of the territory to try to usurp the power of the federal government.

No matter how how you cut it this was not a religious war. Congress did not send in troops just to go exterminate the mormons. Even your own reference doesn't say this.
on May 01, 2007
What'd I miss, what'd I miss?
on May 01, 2007
actually i never said that they were trying to exterminate the mormans

i was merely pointing out that sean was wrong about there being a war against the mormans

and if the president needs to send in troops to put down a rebillion he doesn't have to have a declared war
on May 01, 2007
i was merely pointing out that sean was wrong about there being a war against the mormans


I'd really appreciate it if you would go and read the ENTIRE article that you referenced. You still don't get it. It was not about the mormons it was about rebellion!

"it is sufficient to say that all the officers of the United States, judicial and executive, with the single exception of two Indian agents, have found it necessary for their own personal safety to withdraw from the Territory, and there no longer remains any government in Utah but the despotism of Brigham Young. This being the condition of affairs in the Territory, I could not mistake the path of duty. As Chief Executive Magistrate I was bound to restore the supremacy of the Constitution and laws within its limits. In order to effect this purpose, I appointed a new governor and other Federal officers for Utah and sent with them a military force for their protection and to aid as a posse comitatuts in case of need in the execution of the laws. With the religious opinions of the Mormons, as long as they remained mere opinions, however deplorable in themselves and revolting to the moral and religious sentiments of all Christendom, I had no right to interfere. Actions alone, when in violation of the Constitution and laws of the- United States, become the legitimate subjects for the jurisdiction of the civil magistrate. My instructions to Governor Cumining have therefore been framed in strict accordance with these principles. At their date a hope was indulged that no necessity might exist for employing the military in restoring and maintaining the authority of the law, but this hope has now vanished. Governor Young has by proclamation declared his determination to maintain his power by force, and has already committed acts of hostility against the United States. Unless he should retrace his steps the Territory of Utah will be in a state of open rebellion.

It was about rebellion not religious belief! I'm done with this if you refuse to even read your own source material. Good Bye!
on May 01, 2007
yea the feds were calling him a despot and he was calling the feds despots tr5yihg to go in and kill the religeon

here is the whole story

http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/Mormons/00000080.htm

utah wasnot in a state of rebillion and the government instead of going through channels listenned to a group of anti mormans and sent in the troops to protect the new governor which the church took as an assuilt on liberities akin to other attacks the last one being in missiouri
on May 01, 2007

What'd I miss, what'd I miss?

I'm just catching up Terp.  It seems like a good one brewing though!

on May 01, 2007
What'd I miss, what'd I miss?



At the starters whistle...
on May 01, 2007
I take back what I said/thinking. The link that San Chorizo posted on the other thread only lead to the one about Missouri. I had never seen the federal side.