Published on December 22, 2004 By drmiler In Politics
It now seems that the National Guardsman who posed the question to SecDef Rumsfeld did not know what he was talking about. The following is a repost from "Media Research Center".


Truth Trickles Out: Unit Cited in Question
to Rumsfeld Had Armor

The truth trickles out. "It now appears that the premise of the question that caused an uproar around Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was, so to speak, off base," FNC's Brit Hume noted Tuesday night in reminding viewers how two weeks ago National Guardsman "Thomas Wilson said to Rumsfeld, quote, 'our vehicles are not armored, we do not have proper armament vehicles to carry with us north,' into Iraq." But, Hume relayed, "according to senior Army officers, about 800 of the 830 vehicles in Wilson's Army regiment, the 278th Calvary, had already been up-armored" at the time of his widely publicized question. Some Hearst newspapers reported that fact last week and since then it has trickled up the media stream into NewsMax, the Washington Times and FNC, but not the other networks or major newspapers.

The night of the December 15 Pentagon briefing on the armor situation, CBS Evening News anchor Dan Rather was oblivious to the revelation as he delivered this short item which repeated the National Guardsman's charge: "The U.S. Army said today it will spend more than $4 billion in the next few months in a belated effort to ensure that all its vehicles in Iraq have armor to protect troops inside. The promise came one week after a soldier complained to Defense Secretary Rumsfeld about having to scrounge in trash heaps for makeshift armor."

At that briefing, Army Major General Stephen Speakes, U.S. Army G-8, Force Development, also noted that the remaining vehicles in the Tennessee's National Guard unit were up-armored within 24 hours of the question being posed. Other networks ran clips of Speakes' explanation of the levels of armor and how they are applied, but nothing on the premise of the question which Chattanooga Times Free Press reporter Edward Lee Pitts boasted of placing with the National Guardsman.

In his e-mail back to his editors after the event in Kuwait, Pitts leveled the charge about armor in recounting that in talking with members of the Guard unit with which he was embedded, "before hand we worked on questions to ask Rumsfeld about the appalling lack of armor their vehicles going into combat have. While waiting for the VIP, I went and found the Sgt. in charge of the microphone for the question and answer session and made sure he knew to get my guys out of the crowd."

For more on the Pitts question, see the December 10 CyberAlert: www.mediaresearch.org

For his e-mail in its entirety, as posted by Romenesko on the Poynter Institute site: poynter.org

For the transcript of the December 15 DOD session, "Special Defense Department Briefing on Uparmoring HMMWV," see: www.defenselink.mil

Hume seemingly picked up the disclosure from Greg Pierce's December 21 "Inside Politics" column, which cited a NewsMax.com article:

...."According to the Maryville, Tenn., Daily Times -- a rival to Pitts' paper -- Army Maj. Gen. Stephen Speakes and Army Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Sorenson said during last week's Pentagon briefing that routine pre-deployment preparations before proceeding to Iraq included adding protective armor plates to the last 20 vehicles of the Tennessee-based 278th Regimental Combat Team's 830 vehicles.

"'When the question was asked, 20 vehicles remained to be up-armored at that point,' Gen. Speakes said, in comments completely ignored by the major media.

"'We completed those 20 vehicles in the next day,' he said. 'In other words, we completed all the armoring within 24 hours of the time the question was asked,' Gen. Speakes added.

"The eye-opening revelations by Gen. Speakes and Gen. Sorenson first gained national exposure on FreeRepublic.com late Friday."

END of Excerpt



For the Sunday, December 19 NewsMax.com article, "Rumsfeld's Questioner Wrong About Unit's Armor," attributed to "Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com staff," go to: www.newsmax.com

In fact, that Friday Maryville newspaper article was not original and was attributed to "wire services": www.thedailytimes.com

Hearst Newspapers reporter Stewart Powell deserves the credit for first recounting what Speakes revealed deep into the December 15 briefing. I checked a bunch of Hearst papers for the story and couldn't find it in several, but did locate it in the December 16 Beaumont Enterprise. An excerpt from, "Unit's armor finished up after query of Rumsfeld," the story by Powell who works out of Hearst's Washington bureau:

Within 24 hours after a low-ranking soldier challenged Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld about armor shortages in Iraq, protective armor had been added to every vehicle in the soldier's unit, senior Army officers said Wednesday.

Army Maj. Gen. Stephen Speakes and Army Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Sorenson, senior members of the Army's combat systems development and acquisition team at the Pentagon, said protective armor plates were added to the last 20 vehicles of the Tennessee-based 278th Regimental Combat Team's 830 vehicles shortly after the confrontation with Rumsfeld.

The generals said it was part of routine, pre-deployment preparations in Kuwait before the unit proceeded into Iraq.

"When the question was asked, 20 vehicles remained to be up-armored at that point," Speakes told a Pentagon briefing. "We completed those 20 vehicles in the next day....In other words, we completed all the armoring within 24 hours of the time the question was asked."...

Speakes said Wilson might not have known that the Army was working under "an existing program" to add armor to the last of the unit's vehicles when he questioned Rumsfeld. By the time Wilson's unit headed into Iraq, Speakes said it had 252 vehicles with bolt-on armor plate produced as $7,000-to-$11,000 add-on kits in the United States and shipped to Kuwait for installation.

Another 459 vehicles had less protective, locally fabricated armor plate installed by GIs in Kuwait -- armor known to GIs as "hillbilly armor." Wilson's question referred to that type of ad hoc armor. The unit picked up another 119 armored Humvees upon arrival in Iraq that had been left behind by departing combat units, Speakes said....

END of Excerpt
"

Comments (Page 1)
2 Pages1 2 
on Dec 22, 2004
Of course the major media left all that out, actually reporting facts would go against their code of journalistic ethics. ;~D

"Journalistic Integrity" = An oxymoron.
on Dec 22, 2004
It is on Newsmax as well  Seems the GIs outfit was fully up-armored in less than 24 hours after the question.  ANd for those smelling a put up, that is 830 vehicles.  You dont up armor 830 vehicles over night.
on Dec 22, 2004
It's not the question but the answer: You go to war with what you have, not what you want. For a superpower that's sick. Besides "hill billy" makeshifts doesn't cut it. The stark reality is that we were grossly unprepared.
on Dec 22, 2004

It's not the question but the answer: You go to war with what you have, not what you want. For a superpower that's sick. Besides "hill billy" makeshifts doesn't cut it. The stark reality is that we were grossly unprepared.


I totally disagree.  The only time anyone went to war 'fully' prepared was adolph Hitler and Nazi Germany.


We did not have a perfect army, but it was damn better than any before it.  Hindsight is 20/20, and you can always pick the nits and forget the flying arrows.

on Dec 22, 2004
and you can always pick the nits and forget the flying arrows.


and we're hearing from all the network nits picking at this one!! ;~D
on Dec 22, 2004

altho the maryville tn daily times hardly meets network nit status,  it publised this press release from the commander of the 287th the day of the controversial question.  im more inclined to accept his take than i am those of the pentagon, rumsfeld or the nitwits at newsmax.com (who have a very shaky record and obvious bias).   as far as im concerned, if wilson's questions are what it took--and clearly general hargett had his own reservations--to get the humvees armored, the exercise was well worth embarassing rumsfeld. 


2004-12-09


Maj. Gen. Gus L. Hargett, adjutant general of Tennessee, issued the following statement Wednesday on questions by a 278th Regimental Combat Team soldier to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.


``Spc. (Thomas) Wilson's question is a legitimate concern. Additional armor for vehicles in Iraq has been an issue since the beginning of the war for both active and reserve component soldiers.


``The up-armored vehicles are being supplied to the troops in Iraq as soon as they are available from the manufacturer.


``I have been assured that no 278th soldier will go forward in a vehicle without at least `level 3' armor.


``According to my information, 278th vehicles that are not armored will be trucked forward and will not be occupied by soldiers.


``I am surprised by Gen. Speer's statement that he was not aware of the soldiers using scrap medal and used ballistic glass to up-armor the vehicles. I know that members of his staff were aware and assisted the 278th in obtaining these materials. Our own 230th Area Support Group from Dyersburg, now stationed in Kuwait, also assisted in this effort.


``We are all concerned for the safety of our soldiers, and I am comfortable that the command is doing everything possible to ensure that they are not exposed to unnecessary risks.''


here's the statement to which he refers:


The deputy commanding general of U.S. forces in Kuwait, Maj. Gen. Gary Speer, said in an interview at Camp Buehring that as far as he knew, every vehicle deploying to Iraq from Kuwait had at least ``Level 3'' armor protection. That means it had locally fabricated armor for its side panels, but not bulletproof windows or reinforced floorboards.


Speer said he was unaware that soldiers were searching landfills for scrap metal and discarded glass.

on Dec 22, 2004
So, what the Adjutant General said is that although many troops have had to do with make-shift armor on their HMMWVs, the problem has been identified, and has been being rectified since the beginning of the war. It isn't like the military waited until Rumsfeld was embarrassed to start working the problem.

The problem is the same problem as what has been happening throughout most of this war. A story "breaks" to little if any notice from the general public. Later, the story "breaks" again, but this time the press tells the general public that it is time to be outraged over it. So dutifully, people become outraged.

Also, just as a side note, since when is a unit's Table of Operations and Equipment the responsibility of the Secretary of Defense? For some reason there has been a huge outcry for Prs. Bush and Sec. Rumsfeld to micromanage everything from basic issue for soldiers to testing the safety and effectiveness of prescription medications. Nevermind, I understand the reason.... (see paragragh 2 for a hint). ;~D
on Dec 22, 2004

altho the maryville tn daily times hardly meets network nit status, it publised this press release from the commander of the 287th the day of the controversial question. im more inclined to accept his take than i am those of the pentagon, rumsfeld or the nitwits at newsmax.com (who have a very shaky record and obvious bias). as far as im concerned, if wilson's questions are what it took--and clearly general hargett had his own reservations--to get the humvees armored, the exercise was well worth embarassing rumsfeld.


Ok, believe Maryville, it does not contradict Newsmax or Fox, now does it?  Want me to search CNN?


I guess everything right of Mikey moore is 'obvious bias' to you.

on Dec 22, 2004

Reply #7 By: ParaTed2k - 12/22/2004 5:17:23 PM
Also, just as a side note, since when is a unit's Table of Operations and Equipment the responsibility of the Secretary of Defense? For some reason there has been a huge outcry for Prs. Bush and Sec. Rumsfeld to micromanage everything from basic issue for soldiers to testing the safety and effectiveness of prescription medications.


Okay Kingbee answer this one, if you can.
on Dec 22, 2004

Also, just as a side note, since when is a unit's Table of Operations and Equipment the responsibility of the Secretary of Defense? For some reason there has been a huge outcry for Prs. Bush and Sec. Rumsfeld to micromanage everything from basic issue for soldiers to testing the safety and effectiveness of prescription medications.


That is because that is how democrats, since Johnson, have done it, so they ASS-U-ME, that is they way it should be done.

on Dec 22, 2004

The problem is the same problem as what has been happening throughout most of this war. A story "breaks" to little if any notice from the general public. Later, the story "breaks" again, but this time the press tells the general public that it is time to be outraged over it. So dutifully, people become outraged.


it's not that the public wasnt aware of the situation with the humvees (or the body armor).  ive known about and been bitching about it since sometime in summer 03.   it didnt just break again and the press didnt have to tell anyone it was time to be outraged (if anything, theres so much that was done with too little forethought it's been difficult to determine is the most outrageous).   you know as well as i what made this newsworthy: a. soldier who's about to be deployed has an opportunity to ask the man with the plan (ostensibly) about the reasons he's concerned hes gonna be lookin like don quixote in hillbilly body armor driving a hillbilly armored don quixotevee around in the midst of ieds ; b. rumsfeld tries to shine him on with some bullshit about you can armor armor and itll still blow up and fight the war you got, not the one we promised you.

on Dec 22, 2004

it's not that the public wasnt aware of the situation with the humvees (or the body armor). ive known about and been bitching about it since sometime in summer 03. it didnt just break again and the press didnt have to tell anyone it was time to be outraged (if anything, theres so much that was done with too little forethought it's been difficult to determine is the most outrageous). you know as well as i what made this newsworthy: a. soldier who's about to be deployed has an opportunity to ask the man with the plan (ostensibly) about the reasons he's concerned hes gonna be lookin like don quixote in hillbilly body armor driving a hillbilly armored don quixotevee around in the midst of ieds ; b. rumsfeld tries to shine him on with some bullshit about you can armor armor and itll still blow up and fight the war you got, not the one we promised you.


Admirable.  However, if you have been aware of it, and you are keeping up with it, you know it was being dealt with.  As rapidaly as possible.


And with allthat knowledge, you still spout that stupidity?  Amazing.


I doubt God himself knows more than you!  But then I am just human, and so I rely on biased (i.e. non Mikey Moore) sites to get my news.


You really are omniscience!

on Dec 22, 2004

Reply #9 By: drmiler - 12/22/2004 5:37:59 PM

Reply #7 By: ParaTed2k - 12/22/2004 5:17:23 PM
Also, just as a side note, since when is a unit's Table of Operations and Equipment the responsibility of the Secretary of Defense? For some reason there has been a huge outcry for Prs. Bush and Sec. Rumsfeld to micromanage everything from basic issue for soldiers to testing the safety and effectiveness of prescription medications.


Okay Kingbee answer this one, if you can.


Hey Kingbee, I notice that you still have not addressed this. Can you?
on Dec 22, 2004
it's not that the public wasnt aware of the situation with the humvees (or the body armor). ive known about and been bitching about it since sometime in summer 03.


If you have, then you are a great example of what I am talking about. This has been no secret, and it's not like no vehicles have been "armored up" since the summer of 03. You apparently didn't have to wait until you got your "outrage" marching orders from the press, but you, I and a lot of others knew about it for quite some time, but it is only a public outrage now.

a. soldier who's about to be deployed has an opportunity to ask the man with the plan (ostensibly) about the reasons he's concerned hes gonna be lookin like don quixote in hillbilly body armor driving a hillbilly armored don quixotevee around in the midst of ieds ;


You know as wwell as I do that this isn't how it happened. A whiny reporter was pissed that Rumsfeld was only interested in fielding questions from troops and the press would just have to settle for doing their job. But no, this reporter decided that it should be a chance for him to make a total goon of himself and butt in.

True, the question is a legitimate one (and both Rumsfeld and Prs. Bush have stated as much), being a legitimate question, this infantile "reporter" should have butted out and filed a report on what the troops really did ask, along with whatever responses were given by Sec. Rumsfeld. Or is it too much to ask for a reporter to refrain from creating news for their own pathetic purposes??

and (once again), how is unit TO&E the responsibility of the Sec. of Defense or the Commander in Chief. Last I checked, micromanagement was generally considered a leadership trait of a poor leader. Wouldn't you agree?? ;~D
on Dec 22, 2004

True, the question is a legitimate one (and both Rumsfeld and Prs. Bush have stated as much), being a legitimate question, this infantile "reporter" should have butted out and filed a report on what the troops really did ask, along with whatever responses were given by Sec. Rumsfeld. Or is it too much to ask for a reporter to refrain from creating news for their own pathetic purposes??


Interesting hypothesis!  So when a poignant question is asked by someone against the war, it is news. When a poignant question is asked by a neutral, it is not news.  When the 'mainstream' media asks a biased question, it is news.  When the other media challenges it, it is biased.


Interesting.

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